This sort of article is a Substack genre all by itself. There must have been five in my feed in the past two weeks.
The experience of dating apps sucks, but something that shines through in these articles (always written by women) is how casually you ladies give up on a guy. I know you don't feel like you're being picky but in this article you toss men in the trash for flaws as grievous as opening with chat-up lines, being too young, for having profile photos involving eating things, for having profile photos involving exercise and for having the wrong name (!!).
This is an astonishingly trivial set of reasons to reject someone. Maybe the 39 year olds are actually great partners? Maybe "hi i think you're beautiful" is not actually the best that guy is capable of, he's just tired of not getting replies? After all, after complaining about not getting replies you describe swiping left whilst not replying to guys who messaged you.
You ask for advice for meeting men in London. Here's two suggestions:
1. Get into a "yes mindset". Don't look for reasons to dismiss someone immediately. Give every man a chance to impress you, regardless of first impressions.
2. Wear a t-shirt that says "chat me up" and then go to watch football games at your local drinking holes. Yes, some of the men who chat you up will be outside your ideal age range, use a cheesy line or whatever. That's reality. But when you're not able to make men instantly disappear with a flick of the wrist you might find some of them endearing. At the very least it might boost your confidence.
Hi Alistair, you’re absolutely right , and I didn’t mean it to come across this way , I guess I was just trying to show how exasperated I feel. When you’re 54, I don’t get why a 39 year old would want to chat me up, I’m never gonna consider it, they could be and probably are amazing. Also Trust me after 20 years of marriage when your partner lets you down the mere thought of being with someone who has the same name may seem trivial but it’s psychological impact is deep. Also I’ve not, not replied to a guy, it’s the other way round. . These are guys who I’ve not matched with but are able to send me intros. Thank you for your tips , I do all of that, but I’m definitely gonna try and be open🤓
Totally agree with you on this Francis .. I can’t see what a 39yr old woman is contacting me for! … well, I probably can and I’ll admit to making several assumptions… all of which have been borne out in the past!
It’s one thing to have gotten to o ow someone over time … but to be ‘tapped up’ on an App but someone 14/18 yrs younger just feels weird 🤷♂️
On some of the apps anyone can send an introductory message, regardless of age, on other apps no one can send a message until you have both mutually matched! It’s a mixed bag! Either way they are terrible things. Thank you for reading ☺️
I think the dismissiveness is as much a pathology of dating apps as the dissatisfaction is. For many, he apps are a boring experience, and its very hard to give anything back in response to boredom.
She has one guy in her liked folder on OkCupid. She’s located in London. She’s a 55-year old single mother. I’d say the odds are pretty good she’s picky and believes she’s being charitable, instead.
What a brave piece to publish, Francis. It's accurate to a t, I've had the exact same experiences, and have also been divorced for 7 years. I would not have the courage to publish such a vulnerable account, because I'd be riddled with shame and guilt - especially shame - for not being able to find a suitable guy. I've heard it all: I don't try enough, my standards are too high, I should just relax and have fun, etc. Shame increases with such comments, as if it's *my fault* I'm not able to meet a guy...
Hi Monica, thanks for reading, I’m sorry you have gone through the same experiences! What you have written is exactly why I wrote this piece. I wanted people to see and gain an insight of what’s it’s really like and the struggles are real. It’s not our fault ! I know 💯 that anyone would be lucky to have us in their lives , I’m a catch 😉 I’m sure you are too. We have standards and we won’t settle for anything less !
This is such a heartfelt read, Francis – so well-described. The apps sound pretty soul-destroying for you and Paloma Faith, both.
At risk of sounding daft, are there ways to meet men round your way based on mutual interests? I dunno. Ping pong? Badminton? Choirs? Local walking groups… (Why am I pushing exercise?!) Choir? Non-virtual writing group? I'm sure you've already thought of all that stuff, though, and I get when you invest time in something you need to be interested in it, not just doing it on the off chance someone interesting shows up.
I have everything crossed for you. And thanks for sharing your writing here.
Thanks Wendy, 😊🤞 you’d think in London there would be. I’m in a community choir, it’s full of women, art classes I’ve attended, all women lol. Plus being a single mum , full time job, I’m knackered half the time. My mate met her long term partner playing ping pong , that sport is just not for me 😅
Ha! Ping pong wouldn’t be my actual choice either. But good for your friend! And yes, there are only so many hours... The men in my choir are married or gay, but my choir leader is thinking of launching a separate choir night for singles! Not in London though.
Wow what a good idea , but I reckon it could be full of single women lol. My choir lead has a few groups locally , I must admit there are about 10 men in one of the groups , but they are either much younger than me , married or gay. 😟
Frances, thank you for such an insightful piece of writing.
Your thoughts on the inanity of sitting at home, alone, trying to connect with a partner through dating apps really resonate.
As a man, I’ve found the experience quite different.
While women often face the deluge of random swipes from those playing a numbers game, hoping for a hit, my approach has always been more considered—much like yours.
I take my time, read, and decide carefully.
Each match can feel moderately precious, much like an online friend who, while seemingly real, may not be.
I’m almost ready to publish my first book about parenting, and once that’s complete, I’m launching a vitriolic review of the online dating industry entitled The Great Online Dating Con.
If you’d like to play doubles on that, just let me know! X
Thank you Mark, as always. It’s good to hear there are decent men out there 😃 that’s reassuring , that men are also looking for meaningful connections , my last therapist would always tell me , that men and women are not really that different and fundamentally want the same thing, which I’ve always struggled with that concept! 😅😬 …..The great online dating con sounds incredible!! Look forward to that a lot !! Happy to share and write experiences down for you for sure !! (If that’s what you mean) 😅
The problem with dating sites is that so much depends on luck. You could meet 50 unappealing men- and then meet the one you marry. I met my late husband on a dating site. After a decade of a good marriage, he died, then I met another wonderful man on a different dating site. Unfortunately that didn't last more than a few years- but I would never have met either of these men in real life. The number pf choices is too small, and its too random IRL.. The older a woman gets, the fewer men there are because we usually live longer than men. I don't understand the idea that meeting men in real life is better because there are creeps everywhere - some of the worst experiences I've ever had with men have been men I met in real life.
it’s all so random, I do think dating apps have changed in last 10 years or so as I know people who met on them back then , but I think it’s rarer these days. But I’m gonna try again and I’ve applied for guardian blind date. 😆😆 thank you for reading and commenting ☺️
Why do you think it is rare these days to meet on a dating site? Has something changed? A friend of mine met the love of her life 3 years ago and she was 72 years old then. 2 years ago is when I decided to take a break from the sites and I'm thinking of trying it again, two years is a long time and I'm not getting any younger. But if the dating sites are worse than they used to be - then maybe not. Of course their business model is not to help you find love because they lose you as a customer. But it has always been that way, that is not new
I just think cos of all the nonsense I’ve been through , all the sex pests and ghosters , I’m wondering if it’s an age thing ? As I know younger people (my friends kids) who have met on dating apps, but not anyone my age? Good for your friend , that’s brilliant. I’ve been on and off them for years and I’ve not met anyone decent , only one guy I could see myself with , but he wasn’t really interested as he dated lots of other women also (dating story number 6) 😢🤦🏻♀️
Good for you for applying to Guardian blind date, we'd all love to hear how that goes. BTW my friend who met the love of her life when she was 72 met him on Zoosk
I know several women over the age of 65 who met somebody wonderful on a dating site. Everyone I know even the 20-somethings met their partner on a dating site. If you rely on meeting someone in real life you are only shrinking your odds even smaller.
“but what really hurts is the feeling that no one has my back. There’s no one looking out for me or offering support. No one to fight my corner, to listen to my workday struggles, to share a laugh with in the evening. No one to cuddle up with on the sofa, no one to kiss, no one to share life’s moments with or help carry the load. No one loves me in a romantic way.” This is the hope of everyone in or wanting a relationship. However, many a coupled person reads this list with a wistful sigh, I’d bet.
I can completely relate to this after 10 years on and off dating apps!! There is a grief and loss to it all.
Three significant relationships came as a result of the apps but all three ended up showing their true colors after 18-24 months…gaslighting, deceptive abusers. It’s unbelievably common.
I HIGHLY recommend reading Zawn Villanes for good information on men/dating/marriage/etc.
I am filling my life with lovely girlfriends, volunteer work, reading, taking care of animals, beauty, walks, exploring new restaurants and trails …all the things I didn’t have a lot of time for while raising my daughter and have a very good life by all standards but there is still that yearning for someone close to share it all with that cannot be denied.
Thank you for reading and your comments, I will look that book up. I’ve decided I’d rather be single than go through the hell of dating apps. Glad you are fulfilling your life in other ways 😊
Wow, France’s, this is a total bummer : as a man, not much I can say( pics of a guy eating a tentacle? Loving Cthulhu much?) : Bumble sounds like an enhanced war zone with minefields)- hope you navigate it with a safety harness. When you get some time off, come to Sri Lanka for a visit - sun , surf and mojitos with some v crazed driving…. Lots of laughs guaranteed
I think there are many different experiences of dating apps, depending on stage of life, sex, and background. I found them to be a lifeline, and I’ve found a life partner through them, but it took a lot of patience. There were contacts from women I knew immediately were not a match, but I didn’t find their interest offensive. (But then, I never got any messages that were offensive, and these contacts were greatly outnumbered by the number of times I contacted women who didn’t respond at all.) There were women with whom I had long conversations on the app, followed by phone conversations, followed by multiple dates, followed by…sorry, they’re not interested. There were women who wanted just a plus one; women with whom it developed that they were just so busy with their lives that they had little time to actually have what I’d call a relationship; women where we got along really well, except for that one thing; there were even sometimes women that I found *I* wasn’t interested in. But through all that, I had to feel that every attempt was worth it for its own sake, and that it gave me some experience that would be helpful down the line. And *eventually*, the process worked.
I’m at least as old as you, let’s put it that way. Which means that the stakes are lower, and there’s less urgency, than for young people. Although that can be a problem in itself.
Ok I'm that reader who now goes on a reading roll haha. I absolutely have to comment on this piece. I'm a 30 something single woman in nyc and it's been batshit crazy. You name it I've seen it. Gosh
Thank you for your reading roll 😁 so dating is no different for 30 something year olds? I was hoping it would be a bit easier than for me in my 50’s. It’s shocking isn’t it ! I’ve got 12 dating stories ! I’ve been ,love bombed’ and the rest ! But like you, you name it, I’ve seen it ! 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤣🤣
Just to echo previous commenters, an incredibly brave piece of writing. Keep it up! Also, going to the cinema alone, very underrated! Double also, had to Google ‘Coffee and bagel’ sounded like a euphemism and something I’m going to regret Googling later!
That was brilliant and, although different from the other side of the screen for men, I can absolutely relate to it.
I've settled for, I'm OK, alone if that's what my life falls into, but I'll never give up on romance. It's a different world from when I was last single and I miss meeting people in an analogue way.
It seems most social mores evaporate online .. I have received unsolicited photos from ladies, and it’s always a shock … maybe I’m just getting old 🫣🤷♂️
An all too relatable read, Francis! You absolutely nail the listlessness which the apps can leave with you with. I was on them for years and sounds like little has changed (except making us even more detached from human connection as the functionality of the apps improve). Stay strong, keep tapping out these posts and beware the pervs in skimpy shorts, I guess?
This sort of article is a Substack genre all by itself. There must have been five in my feed in the past two weeks.
The experience of dating apps sucks, but something that shines through in these articles (always written by women) is how casually you ladies give up on a guy. I know you don't feel like you're being picky but in this article you toss men in the trash for flaws as grievous as opening with chat-up lines, being too young, for having profile photos involving eating things, for having profile photos involving exercise and for having the wrong name (!!).
This is an astonishingly trivial set of reasons to reject someone. Maybe the 39 year olds are actually great partners? Maybe "hi i think you're beautiful" is not actually the best that guy is capable of, he's just tired of not getting replies? After all, after complaining about not getting replies you describe swiping left whilst not replying to guys who messaged you.
You ask for advice for meeting men in London. Here's two suggestions:
1. Get into a "yes mindset". Don't look for reasons to dismiss someone immediately. Give every man a chance to impress you, regardless of first impressions.
2. Wear a t-shirt that says "chat me up" and then go to watch football games at your local drinking holes. Yes, some of the men who chat you up will be outside your ideal age range, use a cheesy line or whatever. That's reality. But when you're not able to make men instantly disappear with a flick of the wrist you might find some of them endearing. At the very least it might boost your confidence.
Hi Alistair, you’re absolutely right , and I didn’t mean it to come across this way , I guess I was just trying to show how exasperated I feel. When you’re 54, I don’t get why a 39 year old would want to chat me up, I’m never gonna consider it, they could be and probably are amazing. Also Trust me after 20 years of marriage when your partner lets you down the mere thought of being with someone who has the same name may seem trivial but it’s psychological impact is deep. Also I’ve not, not replied to a guy, it’s the other way round. . These are guys who I’ve not matched with but are able to send me intros. Thank you for your tips , I do all of that, but I’m definitely gonna try and be open🤓
Totally agree with you on this Francis .. I can’t see what a 39yr old woman is contacting me for! … well, I probably can and I’ll admit to making several assumptions… all of which have been borne out in the past!
It’s one thing to have gotten to o ow someone over time … but to be ‘tapped up’ on an App but someone 14/18 yrs younger just feels weird 🤷♂️
Exactly 😄
Aren’t there age filters on the app? How is someone outside of your preset preferred age range getting through?
On some of the apps anyone can send an introductory message, regardless of age, on other apps no one can send a message until you have both mutually matched! It’s a mixed bag! Either way they are terrible things. Thank you for reading ☺️
You do raise a few good points
I think the dismissiveness is as much a pathology of dating apps as the dissatisfaction is. For many, he apps are a boring experience, and its very hard to give anything back in response to boredom.
She has one guy in her liked folder on OkCupid. She’s located in London. She’s a 55-year old single mother. I’d say the odds are pretty good she’s picky and believes she’s being charitable, instead.
What a brave piece to publish, Francis. It's accurate to a t, I've had the exact same experiences, and have also been divorced for 7 years. I would not have the courage to publish such a vulnerable account, because I'd be riddled with shame and guilt - especially shame - for not being able to find a suitable guy. I've heard it all: I don't try enough, my standards are too high, I should just relax and have fun, etc. Shame increases with such comments, as if it's *my fault* I'm not able to meet a guy...
Hi Monica, thanks for reading, I’m sorry you have gone through the same experiences! What you have written is exactly why I wrote this piece. I wanted people to see and gain an insight of what’s it’s really like and the struggles are real. It’s not our fault ! I know 💯 that anyone would be lucky to have us in their lives , I’m a catch 😉 I’m sure you are too. We have standards and we won’t settle for anything less !
This is such a heartfelt read, Francis – so well-described. The apps sound pretty soul-destroying for you and Paloma Faith, both.
At risk of sounding daft, are there ways to meet men round your way based on mutual interests? I dunno. Ping pong? Badminton? Choirs? Local walking groups… (Why am I pushing exercise?!) Choir? Non-virtual writing group? I'm sure you've already thought of all that stuff, though, and I get when you invest time in something you need to be interested in it, not just doing it on the off chance someone interesting shows up.
I have everything crossed for you. And thanks for sharing your writing here.
Thanks Wendy, 😊🤞 you’d think in London there would be. I’m in a community choir, it’s full of women, art classes I’ve attended, all women lol. Plus being a single mum , full time job, I’m knackered half the time. My mate met her long term partner playing ping pong , that sport is just not for me 😅
Ha! Ping pong wouldn’t be my actual choice either. But good for your friend! And yes, there are only so many hours... The men in my choir are married or gay, but my choir leader is thinking of launching a separate choir night for singles! Not in London though.
Wow what a good idea , but I reckon it could be full of single women lol. My choir lead has a few groups locally , I must admit there are about 10 men in one of the groups , but they are either much younger than me , married or gay. 😟
You could be right about who turns up, if it gets off the ground! I’ll be interested to hear.
Frances, thank you for such an insightful piece of writing.
Your thoughts on the inanity of sitting at home, alone, trying to connect with a partner through dating apps really resonate.
As a man, I’ve found the experience quite different.
While women often face the deluge of random swipes from those playing a numbers game, hoping for a hit, my approach has always been more considered—much like yours.
I take my time, read, and decide carefully.
Each match can feel moderately precious, much like an online friend who, while seemingly real, may not be.
I’m almost ready to publish my first book about parenting, and once that’s complete, I’m launching a vitriolic review of the online dating industry entitled The Great Online Dating Con.
If you’d like to play doubles on that, just let me know! X
M
Thank you Mark, as always. It’s good to hear there are decent men out there 😃 that’s reassuring , that men are also looking for meaningful connections , my last therapist would always tell me , that men and women are not really that different and fundamentally want the same thing, which I’ve always struggled with that concept! 😅😬 …..The great online dating con sounds incredible!! Look forward to that a lot !! Happy to share and write experiences down for you for sure !! (If that’s what you mean) 😅
The problem with dating sites is that so much depends on luck. You could meet 50 unappealing men- and then meet the one you marry. I met my late husband on a dating site. After a decade of a good marriage, he died, then I met another wonderful man on a different dating site. Unfortunately that didn't last more than a few years- but I would never have met either of these men in real life. The number pf choices is too small, and its too random IRL.. The older a woman gets, the fewer men there are because we usually live longer than men. I don't understand the idea that meeting men in real life is better because there are creeps everywhere - some of the worst experiences I've ever had with men have been men I met in real life.
Very true , and sorry to hear about your husband.
it’s all so random, I do think dating apps have changed in last 10 years or so as I know people who met on them back then , but I think it’s rarer these days. But I’m gonna try again and I’ve applied for guardian blind date. 😆😆 thank you for reading and commenting ☺️
Why do you think it is rare these days to meet on a dating site? Has something changed? A friend of mine met the love of her life 3 years ago and she was 72 years old then. 2 years ago is when I decided to take a break from the sites and I'm thinking of trying it again, two years is a long time and I'm not getting any younger. But if the dating sites are worse than they used to be - then maybe not. Of course their business model is not to help you find love because they lose you as a customer. But it has always been that way, that is not new
I just think cos of all the nonsense I’ve been through , all the sex pests and ghosters , I’m wondering if it’s an age thing ? As I know younger people (my friends kids) who have met on dating apps, but not anyone my age? Good for your friend , that’s brilliant. I’ve been on and off them for years and I’ve not met anyone decent , only one guy I could see myself with , but he wasn’t really interested as he dated lots of other women also (dating story number 6) 😢🤦🏻♀️
Good for you for applying to Guardian blind date, we'd all love to hear how that goes. BTW my friend who met the love of her life when she was 72 met him on Zoosk
I’ve never heard of Zoosk
I know several women over the age of 65 who met somebody wonderful on a dating site. Everyone I know even the 20-somethings met their partner on a dating site. If you rely on meeting someone in real life you are only shrinking your odds even smaller.
“but what really hurts is the feeling that no one has my back. There’s no one looking out for me or offering support. No one to fight my corner, to listen to my workday struggles, to share a laugh with in the evening. No one to cuddle up with on the sofa, no one to kiss, no one to share life’s moments with or help carry the load. No one loves me in a romantic way.” This is the hope of everyone in or wanting a relationship. However, many a coupled person reads this list with a wistful sigh, I’d bet.
Yes I bet you’re right ! Thank you for reading 😊
I can completely relate to this after 10 years on and off dating apps!! There is a grief and loss to it all.
Three significant relationships came as a result of the apps but all three ended up showing their true colors after 18-24 months…gaslighting, deceptive abusers. It’s unbelievably common.
I HIGHLY recommend reading Zawn Villanes for good information on men/dating/marriage/etc.
I am filling my life with lovely girlfriends, volunteer work, reading, taking care of animals, beauty, walks, exploring new restaurants and trails …all the things I didn’t have a lot of time for while raising my daughter and have a very good life by all standards but there is still that yearning for someone close to share it all with that cannot be denied.
Thank you for writing and sharing this! 🌸
Thank you for reading and your comments, I will look that book up. I’ve decided I’d rather be single than go through the hell of dating apps. Glad you are fulfilling your life in other ways 😊
Wow, France’s, this is a total bummer : as a man, not much I can say( pics of a guy eating a tentacle? Loving Cthulhu much?) : Bumble sounds like an enhanced war zone with minefields)- hope you navigate it with a safety harness. When you get some time off, come to Sri Lanka for a visit - sun , surf and mojitos with some v crazed driving…. Lots of laughs guaranteed
Sorry , don’t know how I missed this comment 😄
Meant it about SL hols…… sun n fun guaranteed
Downside- you might not want to come back to Blighty…
I think there are many different experiences of dating apps, depending on stage of life, sex, and background. I found them to be a lifeline, and I’ve found a life partner through them, but it took a lot of patience. There were contacts from women I knew immediately were not a match, but I didn’t find their interest offensive. (But then, I never got any messages that were offensive, and these contacts were greatly outnumbered by the number of times I contacted women who didn’t respond at all.) There were women with whom I had long conversations on the app, followed by phone conversations, followed by multiple dates, followed by…sorry, they’re not interested. There were women who wanted just a plus one; women with whom it developed that they were just so busy with their lives that they had little time to actually have what I’d call a relationship; women where we got along really well, except for that one thing; there were even sometimes women that I found *I* wasn’t interested in. But through all that, I had to feel that every attempt was worth it for its own sake, and that it gave me some experience that would be helpful down the line. And *eventually*, the process worked.
If you don’t mind me asking what age bracket are you in? I’m glad you found a life partner 😀 thank you for reading ☺️
I’m at least as old as you, let’s put it that way. Which means that the stakes are lower, and there’s less urgency, than for young people. Although that can be a problem in itself.
As someone who lives with 4 cats and a dog, there is no shame in it. However, good luck out there. Hope you find your glee.
No shame at all , I love my cat 😃
Been there, done that, hated it. I try to believe my new Substack family has my back. They just never show up for a drink, or ping pong
🤣🤣🤣 … well, where’s the toffee is all I can say 👍🏻
😂😂
Ok I'm that reader who now goes on a reading roll haha. I absolutely have to comment on this piece. I'm a 30 something single woman in nyc and it's been batshit crazy. You name it I've seen it. Gosh
I’ll have a read later , just read your Matt Damon one 🤣🤣
Glad you enjoyed it :)
Thank you for your reading roll 😁 so dating is no different for 30 something year olds? I was hoping it would be a bit easier than for me in my 50’s. It’s shocking isn’t it ! I’ve got 12 dating stories ! I’ve been ,love bombed’ and the rest ! But like you, you name it, I’ve seen it ! 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤣🤣
Hahaa I hear you! I just published 2. How does someone get to the age of 40 and not know if they want kids. Like how!?!
Just to echo previous commenters, an incredibly brave piece of writing. Keep it up! Also, going to the cinema alone, very underrated! Double also, had to Google ‘Coffee and bagel’ sounded like a euphemism and something I’m going to regret Googling later!
Hahaha! It’s the world shittiest dating app ! Thanks for reading 😁
That was brilliant and, although different from the other side of the screen for men, I can absolutely relate to it.
I've settled for, I'm OK, alone if that's what my life falls into, but I'll never give up on romance. It's a different world from when I was last single and I miss meeting people in an analogue way.
Thank you Dean, so different from when I was last single also !!! Everything has changed so much ! Even Gen Z are on dating apps today !
I don't think I could ever date anyone under 35 for so many reasons,! Although the main one is that they wouldn't want to date me either.
Me either !!! At 54 that doesn’t seem right at all ! 😂
Hearing and feeling this too! Thank you for sharing so candidly 👏
Hi Tory ,thank you for reading. So sorry you’re going through this too! There has to be a better way 😌
I hope so. Last month, I got (2 sentences into an initial exchange) send me naked photos so I can see if you’re worth the travel. Erm, no…
That’s awful!! What’s wrong with people?! , in my dating story number 7 , it’s all about the sex pests 🙈🙈
I will take a look - just subscribed!
Great thank you 🙏🏼🤩
WTF!! Really … what a douche bag 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🚨🚨
Yes!! I chose to find it funny 😂
It seems most social mores evaporate online .. I have received unsolicited photos from ladies, and it’s always a shock … maybe I’m just getting old 🫣🤷♂️
It’s a weird world. It’s always refreshing to find a genuine person. And that’s why I love Substack so much - a breath of humanity and humility.
An all too relatable read, Francis! You absolutely nail the listlessness which the apps can leave with you with. I was on them for years and sounds like little has changed (except making us even more detached from human connection as the functionality of the apps improve). Stay strong, keep tapping out these posts and beware the pervs in skimpy shorts, I guess?
Hahaha , thanks Vinny 😝